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http://www.usatoday.com/travel/desti...n-europe_N.htm
http://eurotestmobility.com/eurotest.php?itemno=346

"Only Munich rated 'very good' because of fast connections, 'plenty of
information at stops and in vehicles' and an 'extremely impressive"
website'."

"[London] has Europe's priciest public transportation system." It
does not appear that they compared the price of public transit against
the cost of living (EuroTest's website does not explain). Everything
in London is obscenely priced, especially museums. And let's not
forget the guy with the megaphone standing at the top of the escalator
shouting out the status of the various Underground lines; I've never
seen anything like that anywhere else.

Helsinki was rated as 'good.' I have not traveled to Helsinki in a
long time, but their metro and trams were very clean, quiet, and
modern.

They did not rate Berlin, which is quite strange considering its size.

They did not rate Stockholm; I thought their metro / tram / ferry
coverage was fairly good.

EuroTest did not compare Moscow or St. Petersburg. These cities have
old, NOISY metro cars, but the price is very low and the coverage is
good. Of course, nothing is written in any language other than
Russian and ticket agents understand only Russian.

"baroque-quest" <baroque.quest@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:670c603a-1483-4a44-b09f-a22ee062613a@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.usatoday.com/travel/desti...n-europe_N.htm
> http://eurotestmobility.com/eurotest.php?itemno=346
>
> "Only Munich rated 'very good' because of fast connections, 'plenty of
> information at stops and in vehicles' and an 'extremely impressive"
> website'."
>
> "[London] has Europe's priciest public transportation system."

I was going to say that they can't have included Copenhagen then. But they
have.

I assume therefore that they took the cash fare rather than the Oyster fare.

I wonder if they took "discount" tickets into account at other locations.

tim

"tim...." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> disait le 03/03/10 que :

> "baroque-quest" <baroque.quest@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:670c603a-1483-4a44-b09f-a22ee062613a@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> http://www.usatoday.com/travel/desti...n-europe_N.htm
>> http://eurotestmobility.com/eurotest.php?itemno=346
>>
>> "Only Munich rated 'very good' because of fast connections, 'plenty of
>> information at stops and in vehicles' and an 'extremely impressive"
>> website'."
>>
>> "[London] has Europe's priciest public transportation system."
>
> I was going to say that they can't have included Copenhagen then. But they
> have.
>
> I assume therefore that they took the cash fare rather than the Oyster fare.
>
> I wonder if they took "discount" tickets into account at other locations.

It seems in Paris they took the 10 tickets book, and not the weekly pass
(but from monday to sunday) nor the tourist 3 or 5 day pass.

--
Le travail n'est pas une bonne chose. Si ça l'était,
les riches l'auraient accaparé

On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:03:19 -0800 (PST), baroque-quest
<baroque.quest@gmail.com> wrote:

>http://www.usatoday.com/travel/desti...n-europe_N.htm
>http://eurotestmobility.com/eurotest.php?itemno=346

....

>Helsinki was rated as 'good.' I have not traveled to Helsinki in a
>long time, but their metro and trams were very clean, quiet, and
>modern.

Helsinki has a rather good bus system as well.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 03/03/2010 19:03, baroque-quest wrote:
> Everything in London is obscenely priced, especially museums. And let's not
> forget the guy with the megaphone standing at the top of the escalator
> shouting out the status of the various Underground lines; I've never
> seen anything like that anywhere else.

Which "London" was this? In 40 years I've never seen this in the London
Tube.

baroque-quest wrote:
> Everything
> in London is obscenely priced, especially museums.

The national museums in the UK are free, including the Science Museum.
the Natural History Museum etc...

So perhaps you mean that some of the museums are obscenely cheap?
--
Jeremy Double <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> {real address, include nospam}
Rail and transport photos at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/

On Mar 3, 8:03*pm, baroque-quest <baroque.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "[London] has Europe's priciest public transportation system." *It
> does not appear that they compared the price of public transit against
> the cost of living (EuroTest's website does not explain). *Everything
> in London is obscenely priced, especially museums. *

What, you mean like the totally free National Museums and Galleries,
covering some of London's best including the Science Museum?

I expect they did their working-out using paper tickets, which are
deliberately overpriced to price people onto Oyster.

Personally, though, I'd say the best system I've experienced is
Hamburg's.

Neil

On Mar 4, 9:22*am, mikeos <mike...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Which "London" was this? In 40 years I've never seen this in the London
> Tube.

The staff are generally quite committed, and will occasionally do
things like that where there's a PA fault. But not often.

Neil

> > Everything *in London is obscenely priced, especially museums. *Andlet's not
> > forget the guy with the megaphone standing at the top of the escalator
> > shouting out the status of the various Underground lines; I've never
> > seen anything like that anywhere else.
>
> Which "London" was this? In 40 years I've never seen this in the London
> Tube.

I was in London in July 2009. I stayed in a hotel near Euston Station
and entered the Tube everyday, sometimes more than once per day, via
that Tube entrance. Every single time there was a guy, usually a guy
in his twenties, with a megaphone saying something like "There is a
delay on the Victoria Line. The down escalator is not functioning in
the [I do not remember his phrasing] area." One of the down
escalators was not working the entire time I was there (one week).
This was not a barker selling something; it was a Tube employee. I
assumed every Tube station had someone doing this. Perhaps he was
there solely because of the escalator. But he was there.

> > in London is obscenely priced, especially museums. *
>
> The national museums in the UK are free, including the Science Museum.
> the Natural History Museum etc...
>
> So perhaps you mean that some of the museums are obscenely cheap?

Westminster Abbey (£12), Queen’s Gallery (£8.50), Royal Academy (£9
for special event), Hampton Court Palace (£14), St. Paul’s Cathedral
(£11), Windsor Castle (£15.50), Tower Bridge (£7), Blenheim Palace
(£17.50), Kensington Palace (£12.50), and London Transport Museum
(£10). Victoria and Albert Museum is free, but special exhibitions
are not.

Yes, some outstanding museums are free, like the Tate Britain,
National Gallery, Wallace Collection, British Museum, and National
Portrait Gallery, but all of them request a donation.

On Mar 4, 4:47*pm, baroque-quest <baroque.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, some outstanding museums are free, like the Tate Britain,
> National Gallery, Wallace Collection, British Museum, and National
> Portrait Gallery, but all of them request a donation.

Unlike similar US museums, they will not guilt-trip you or embarrass
you into donating, however - it is completely optional. That said,
they were looking at changing to the US system - I hope they do not.

Neil

On Mar 4, 4:33*pm, baroque-quest <baroque.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was in London in July 2009. *I stayed in a hotel near Euston Station
> and entered the Tube everyday, sometimes more than once per day, via
> that Tube entrance. *Every single time there was a guy, usually a guy
> in his twenties, with a megaphone saying something like "There is a
> delay on the Victoria Line. *The down escalator is not functioning in
> the [I do not remember his phrasing] area." *One of the down
> escalators was not working the entire time I was there (one week).

This was a special case, and relates to the latter (the escalator
problem) which resulted in a change to the passenger flow, and
announcements in an area where there are usually none. Such
announcements are normally recorded and played over the PA at
intervals.

Neil

> > Yes, some outstanding museums are free, like the Tate Britain,
> > National Gallery, Wallace Collection, British Museum, and National
> > Portrait Gallery, but all of them request a donation.
>
> Unlike similar US museums, they will not guilt-trip you or embarrass
> you into donating, however - it is completely optional. *That said,
> they were looking at changing to the US system - I hope they do not.

New York's Metropolitan Art Museum has a "recommended" adult price of
$20, but one gets the impression that arms and legs might be broken if
the donation is not paid. NYC is obscenely priced in general,
especially for hotels.

Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry does not pressure visitors to
donate.

Washington DC is one of the best cities in the world for a cheap date,
with the free National Gallery and the multitude of free Smithsonian
museums. And watching pampered lobbyists and corrupt politicians is
always free. I would not walk lonely streets after dark, however.


P.S. To those born without a sense of humor, the remark about "arms
and legs" is a joke. But they do pressure visitors to donate. Their
system probably has a lot to do with our tax system; a donation might
be better than charged admission for tax purposes.

"baroque-quest" <baroque.quest@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:119c18c9-243f-4a29-b580-4294c370ade6@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

Yes, some outstanding museums are free, like the Tate Britain,
National Gallery, Wallace Collection, British Museum, and National
Portrait Gallery, but all of them request a donation.

----------------------------

That doesn't make them expensive.

You've forgotten the Science Museum, the Natural History Museum, the
National Maritime Museum and the Imperial War Museum.

The churches are free if you go to a service.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On 04/03/2010 08:48, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Mar 3, 8:03 pm, baroque-quest<baroque.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "[London] has Europe's priciest public transportation system." It
>> does not appear that they compared the price of public transit against
>> the cost of living (EuroTest's website does not explain). Everything
>> in London is obscenely priced, especially museums.
>
> What, you mean like the totally free National Museums and Galleries,
> covering some of London's best including the Science Museum?
>
> I expect they did their working-out using paper tickets, which are
> deliberately overpriced to price people onto Oyster.
>
> Personally, though, I'd say the best system I've experienced is
> Hamburg's.

I've had locals in some cities be genuinely shocked when I've asked how
to buy a ticket. Yes, as in /pay for/ travel. The Italian bus driver and
Bucharest receptionist could barely grasp the concept, and a woman in
Toronto clearly thought I was completely mad.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

> Yes, some outstanding museums are free, like the Tate Britain,
> National Gallery, Wallace Collection, British Museum, and National
> Portrait Gallery, but all of them request a donation.
> That doesn't make them expensive.

It also does not make them free, which was the point of my reply.
Don't take things out of context.

> You've forgotten the Science Museum, *the Natural History Museum, the
> National Maritime Museum and the Imperial War Museum.

The first three are not on anyone's top-10 or must-see list. I could
travel to London and sit in the park all day for free, but what's the
point?

> The churches are free if you go to a service.

That's wonderful for London residents, but tourists have very little
time to waste, so visits to museums must often be made on a schedule.

> I've had locals in some cities be genuinely shocked when I've asked how
> to buy a ticket. Yes, as in /pay for/ travel. The Italian bus driver and
> Bucharest receptionist could barely grasp the concept, and a woman in
> Toronto clearly thought I was completely mad.

People in Italy and Romania might expect to ride without paying, but
Canadians tend to be very law-abiding. Some cities check tickets/
passes on a regular basis, e.g. Prague and Budapest. Some cities
border on anarchy, e.g. Paris, where people often just jump over/under
the turnstiles.

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:10:59 -0800 (PST), baroque-quest
<baroque.quest@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I've had locals in some cities be genuinely shocked when I've asked how
>> to buy a ticket. Yes, as in /pay for/ travel. The Italian bus driver and
>> Bucharest receptionist could barely grasp the concept, and a woman in
>> Toronto clearly thought I was completely mad.
>
>People in Italy and Romania might expect to ride without paying, but
>Canadians tend to be very law-abiding. Some cities check tickets/
>passes on a regular basis, e.g. Prague and Budapest. Some cities
>border on anarchy, e.g. Paris, where people often just jump over/under
>the turnstiles.

I have seen ticket checkers on Helsinki buses, trams and the
Metro. I have also seen some pretty rugged looking young men
checking tickets on the Berlin U-Bahn.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:58:40 -0800 (PST), baroque-quest
<baroque.quest@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Yes, some outstanding museums are free, like the Tate Britain,
>> National Gallery, Wallace Collection, British Museum, and National
>> Portrait Gallery, but all of them request a donation.
>> That doesn't make them expensive.
>
>It also does not make them free, which was the point of my reply.
>Don't take things out of context.
>
>> You've forgotten the Science Museum, *the Natural History Museum, the
>> National Maritime Museum and the Imperial War Museum.
>
>The first three are not on anyone's top-10 or must-see list. I could
>travel to London and sit in the park all day for free, but what's the
>point?

Visiting the more desirable museums for free will take quite
enough time unless you're the sort that whisks through a museum
just so you an say you went.

>> The churches are free if you go to a service.
>
>That's wonderful for London residents, but tourists have very little
>time to waste, so visits to museums must often be made on a schedule.

Visiting museums on a schedule seems ghastly to me, sort of check
this off and move on. No point in getting interested in anything
in particular because one must keep moving.

Incidentally, the Imperial Air Museum at Duxford is a must-see
for those who go for that sort of thing.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

> >> You've forgotten the Science Museum, *the Natural History Museum, the
> >> National Maritime Museum and the Imperial War Museum.
>
> >The first three are not on anyone's top-10 or must-see list. *I could
> >travel to London and sit in the park all day for free, but what's the
> >point?
>
> Visiting the more desirable museums for free will take quite
> enough time unless you're the sort that whisks through a museum
> just so you an say you went.

"Desirable" can be defined by the sentence "One man's ceiling is
another man's floor." I plan a trip and allocate days as best I can.
Then I decide which museums are most important to me. If I make it
through my top choices, then I am able to see other museums. I see no
point to substituting a museum just because it is free, especially
considering that I may never be able to travel to that city again.
Sometimes I must choose one museum over another because of closing
times. And I do not whisk.

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:16:18 +0000, Arthur Figgis
<afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:

>On 04/03/2010 08:48, Neil Williams wrote:
>> On Mar 3, 8:03 pm, baroque-quest<baroque.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "[London] has Europe's priciest public transportation system." It
>>> does not appear that they compared the price of public transit against
>>> the cost of living (EuroTest's website does not explain). Everything
>>> in London is obscenely priced, especially museums.
>>
>> What, you mean like the totally free National Museums and Galleries,
>> covering some of London's best including the Science Museum?
>>
>> I expect they did their working-out using paper tickets, which are
>> deliberately overpriced to price people onto Oyster.
>>
>> Personally, though, I'd say the best system I've experienced is
>> Hamburg's.
>
>I've had locals in some cities be genuinely shocked when I've asked how
>to buy a ticket. Yes, as in /pay for/ travel. The Italian bus driver and
>Bucharest receptionist could barely grasp the concept, and a woman in
>Toronto clearly thought I was completely mad.

In Toronto you normally pay at the subway booth before going through
the turnstile or on boarding the bus. I'm not certain how many
non-TTC outlets sell TTC tickets, tokens and passes. The woman in
Toronto may have thought that any one would know that only the TTC
would sell transit stuff (even if not completely true).

Arthur Figgis:
>> I've had locals in some cities be genuinely shocked when I've asked how
>> to buy a ticket. Yes, as in /pay for/ travel. The Italian bus driver and
>> Bucharest receptionist could barely grasp the concept, and a woman in
>> Toronto clearly thought I was completely mad.

Clark Morris:
> In Toronto you normally pay at the subway booth before going through
> the turnstile or on boarding the bus.

Yes. As a long-time TTC user I have seen people cheating on fares
(jumping turnstiles and such), but it's very rare.

> I'm not certain how many non-TTC outlets sell TTC tickets, tokens
> and passes.

Actually there are lots of them; they stopped selling tickets on board
the buses in 1975, so if you don't live or work near a subway station
you have to go to a store to buy any sort of pass or multi-ride fare.

> The woman in Toronto may have thought that any one would know that only
> the TTC would sell transit stuff (even if not completely true).

I'd guess either (1) she was one of those people who only travel by
car and just assumed that you always paid on boarding or at a subway
station, or (2) she misheard the question somehow.

People paying adult fare in Toronto actually don't buy tickets now --
the adult tickets were always interchangeable with subway tokens and
have been abolished because they were more easily counterfeited --
but that's a relatively recent change and unlikely to be a source of
her confusion.
--
Mark Brader | But I think we can do better next time. (Where the
Toronto | word "we" refers to [those] who do the hard work while
msb@vex.net | I sit back and complain...) -- Keith Thompson

My text in this article is in the public domain.

baroque-quest wrote:
>> You've forgotten the Science Museum, the Natural History Museum, the
>> National Maritime Museum and the Imperial War Museum.
>
> The first three are not on anyone's top-10 or must-see list.

You're wrong, the Science Museum is in my top 3 for a visit to London.
--
Jeremy Double <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> {real address, include nospam}
Rail and transport photos at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/

Neil Williams wrote:
> On Mar 4, 4:33 pm, baroque-quest <baroque.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was in London in July 2009. I stayed in a hotel near Euston Station
>> and entered the Tube everyday, sometimes more than once per day, via
>> that Tube entrance. Every single time there was a guy, usually a guy
>> in his twenties, with a megaphone saying something like "There is a
>> delay on the Victoria Line. The down escalator is not functioning in
>> the [I do not remember his phrasing] area." One of the down
>> escalators was not working the entire time I was there (one week).
>
> This was a special case, and relates to the latter (the escalator
> problem) which resulted in a change to the passenger flow, and
> announcements in an area where there are usually none. Such
> announcements are normally recorded and played over the PA at
> intervals.
>
> Neil
I'd say it's a better way to get people's attention, even if it looks odd.

M
http://cannes-or-bust.com/

"baroque-quest" <baroque.quest@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a628752b-b58f-4eda-b95e-6172d3c00937@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

> You've forgotten the Science Museum, the Natural History Museum, the
> National Maritime Museum and the Imperial War Museum.

The first three are not on anyone's top-10 or must-see list.

---------------------------------

Oh yes they are.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.